SPEAKER_01 0:18

As God's chosen people sounds with kindness gentlemen of you to greet stuck in someone Welcome to the Little High Okay No we don't greet each other stop it We're not on camera this time but so don't let anyone know that I'm waving whoosh whoosh whoosh the asthma I missed it we need that was good that was great book recommendation from your sister Oh yeah do you want to hear it okay this book recommendation from Jennifer the eldest of the Copes Girls is The Ghost of Gold Mountain by somebody. Okay that's somebody yes somebody wrote this it's a story of the Chinese who built the Central Pacific Railroad and there's very little primary source evidence from the men who came from China to build the railroad. So this historian has done a thorough research job looking at sources from the men who were in charge of building the railroad. This is just a lot of words with railroad. Um he pulls Zephyr. Yes, it's a zephyr full of railroads. Okay. Uh speaking of well-sourced books, my book club just read a book. Um, and I kid you not, it was a nonfiction book, and the source he used was Wikipedia.

SPEAKER_04 2:15

Oh, the author?

SPEAKER_01 2:16

The author used Wikipedia as source material for this book.

SPEAKER_04 2:19

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

No, wrong.

SPEAKER_04 2:21

Yeah, horrible, atrocious. Use AI. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yeah. Okay. Uh Jennifer also has a second book recommendation, and this is specifically for the Luhai staff. But she doesn't give the title.

SPEAKER_04 2:35

You came to the wrong place. None of them listen to this. Just Mr. Monty.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

And Shelby's fiance, Miss Spitz's fiance listened. So maybe Jared Jared B-E-R G. You found his last name.

SPEAKER_04 2:50

I do my due diligence.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Better than that other author who used Wikipedia. Yeah, it's well, you actually Wikipedia told me Jared's last name. Oh my goodness. Wikipedia. Uh Jared, maybe you could pass this along to Shelby. It's about retrieval practice as an educator. Does that mean anything to you?

SPEAKER_04 3:07

Well, no. Okay, me either. I don't know. It's not a new concept in education.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

That's for sure.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

But it's new to us.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Oh, maybe the title is Powerful Teaching by Somebody. Jennifer?

SPEAKER_04 3:20

Jennifer, if you expected us to read this or plan at all for this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

You're crazy.

SPEAKER_04 3:27

Y'all know no. I'm a prey for you. Because you don't know your own sister.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Hilarious. Okay. Um, the other elephant in the room is that we had a mid-season music change.

SPEAKER_04 3:43

Oh, you think anyone noticed?

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yes, I do. Because we got a zephyr about it.

SPEAKER_04 3:47

You got a zephyr about it.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:50

Okay, what's the deal with the mid-season music change?

SPEAKER_01 3:53

I don't know. I'm sad because I really liked I really liked the original one.

SPEAKER_04 3:57

Oh, well, you can go back.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

I might go back.

SPEAKER_04 4:00

No one can stop you.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Well.

SPEAKER_04 4:04

Now they can.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

If you if you said that you liked the other one better, then I would keep it.

SPEAKER_04 4:11

Okay, well what's the reasoning behind it? The reason behind it is that for years we've had these uh theme verses and for years I would put them into music because it was kind of fun and I was kind of good at it. And I would make my students learn it, and I'd do it in Spanish too, and it was this thing we did, and I was always hoping Coley would go, you know what? We should use that in chapel. And uh maybe I should have pushed a little harder, but I kind of forgot that that was why I did it, and then you started using them for the podcast intros, and I thought, well, oh, this is cool, and that became the point of it the last few years, and then this year, Pastor Vanderhead goes, Hey, that podcast intro would be great to play in chapel. And I was like, That's a great idea. That's that was the original idea. I wish I would have remembered that. But he said, but it's a little too quiet as like a walkout song. I don't know that it would work in a gym. I think he's right. It just needs to be a little more a little more gusto, a little more rocking, and a little more anthemic. So I said, Oh disagree. If I think you're right. Well, for but yeah, but like imagine students in a gym going, what is that? Yeah, we'll sing along to it. Like they're not gonna sing along to crickets and bulky music? I don't know. It was a little too artsy, I guess. But but but then I said, what's more anthemic than wake up by the arcade fire? Maybe, maybe don't look back in anger by Oasis. But other than that, not that many songs.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

I don't think I know that one. I only know one Oasis song. And it is the one that everybody knows.

SPEAKER_04 6:06

Yeah, yeah, it's not even their best song. I don't know why that song's so famous. But um so yeah, we were my I showed my kids the movie The Secret Life of Walter Middy.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Oh, that is an excellent movie.

SPEAKER_04 6:18

So good.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

That is a movie that is actually better than the book.

SPEAKER_04 6:22

I believe it. I never read the book. Oh but uh the soundtrack is also Dynomite, and they have Wake Up by Arcade Fire in that song. Oh, yeah. Yes, my kids and I are watching it, uh Mr. Vanderheid's kids were like doing sleepovers with my kids and stuff, and and they watched the movie again. And anyway, at the same time, I'm like, oh, we want an anthemic song. That song would be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

So not that song.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

You did a good job sampling it though, because two people in my life, Laura's one of them, she said, New intro music on the pod is giving arcade fire. And I was sitting on the couch editing the podcast, and Matt looked over and he said, Is that arcade fire? And I was like, No, that is that is that is that is our own Mr. Zeller.

SPEAKER_04 7:14

Well, you know, I wasn't trying to hide anything. I just thought they start it with this guitar tone and this percussion situation, and they hold that C chord until the song starts. I'll do that. Other than that, it doesn't actually sound like arcade fire, it's literally just the first few seconds. Not pop anybody's balloon.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

No, and Matt did Matt pulled it up on his computer, he pulled up that song and he's like, listen. And then right after the interview is like, Oh, it's actually not that, it's actually different. And I'm like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:43

Well, you know what? Arcade Fire, if you want to sue us, or sponsor the show, or sponsor the show. We'll be honored to talk to you. We're big fans.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

And if anyone's like, that's not original music, I'm not listening to this podcast. We're sorry to see you go.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

But we didn't even know you were here.

SPEAKER_04 8:01

That's right. But if you were an arcade fire fan and you've been listening all this time, that's on you for not bringing it up by now, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:08

But also I have no shame about intentionally trying to make those things similar.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

You steal like an artist. That's sampling is such a big deal.

SPEAKER_04 8:17

But the rest of the song is quite a bit different. And if you want me to walk you through it on the air, I will.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Maybe our maybe that'll be our last one.

SPEAKER_04 8:26

It's a different meter.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

It's such a compliment when when artists steal from other artists because it's just like, wow, you did a really good job, and I'm gonna use that. It happens all the time.

SPEAKER_04 8:37

I could totally change the feel of that song in six minutes of clicking. You would never accuse it of arcade fire. Six minutes.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

I'm still waiting for the shins.

SPEAKER_04 8:48

Go back to that.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

The shins.

SPEAKER_04 8:51

He sings too high. I'm old, Hannah.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Oh. Um okay. Great. Okay, today on the That's why the people came. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 9:01

Check this out. In six minutes of clicking, I could make that song sound like anything. Horse hoofs, oh, you know, whatever. Yes. Doing the percussion.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Do you remember when you wrote us a country song? Sang it on the air. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 9:17

So you know who loves country music more than anyone else on staff.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

I do. I'm assuming it's Mr. D'Antoni. Uh, it's Mr. D'Antoni.

SPEAKER_04 9:25

He's the one who told me that Garth Brooks is going incognito to play a show at the Grizzly Rose the night before the Garth Brooks concert in his stadium, and he's going as a numb de plume Yukon Jack, and tickets are 25 bucks.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Is this true?

SPEAKER_04 9:43

Yeah, it happened already. Oh, it's true. Garth Brooks played the Grizzly Rose.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

And DeAntoni knew about it ahead of time.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

D'Antoni knew about it ahead of time. And he told me and I said, I don't believe you. And then he convinced me that I should believe him, and then I did. And then when he took me out of that headlock, I said I said, Are you gonna go? And he goes, No. Are you gonna go? I said, No.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Does he like Garth Brooks, I wonder?

SPEAKER_04 10:05

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:07

He's he's something else. His energy is something else.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Have you seen him live?

SPEAKER_04 10:12

On video I have.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Close enough.

SPEAKER_04 10:14

But I think DeAntoni and I, we're different ages, but we are both in the same age range of I'm not gonna stand in line for hours so I can stand at a concert for hours and then drive home and miss all my hours of sleep and feel like crap the next day for every hour of it.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

100%. Because this is another thing I know about Chris DeAntoni. He values his sleep and he does a great job teaching our young men that they should value their sleep. Amazing. Uh okay, do you have anything else nice to say about Chris De Antoni?

SPEAKER_04 10:46

But unfortunately, I think we've exceeded our time.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:49

Yeah, that's all we got today, my friend Hannah, who reads all her email live for the first time on the air. Speaking of which, you can submit your bylines for either of us.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:07

We invite you to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Because currently the best one we have is uh my co-host, the only person I know who was kicked off Facebook because they made him take a test to prove he's human and he failed. Oh yeah, submit a byline because this is all we got. Hey everybody, welcome back to Blue High Pod. I am so excited to have my guest with me today because he's one of my favorite people to have on the podcast and just favorite people in general, Mr. DiAntoni. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_05 11:44

I'm so good. September 30th is actually International Podcast Day.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

No way.

SPEAKER_05 11:49

I think it is. I didn't know. We can double check that. But I think it actually might be since we're recording on September 30th. I think it is International Podcast Day.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

That is that makes me happy.

SPEAKER_05 11:58

Which is part of Homecoming. It's an official day at Homecoming.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

It is, as it should be. Yes. Everyone should be walking around with their headphones on. Amazing. Um well I'm excited to have you here because we're not really talking about Lutheran High stuff today. We are talking about you and a service organization that you are deeply ingrained in. War horses for veterans. So we just want to hear all about that and your involvement in that. And I think this is still relevant to the Luhai community just because it's always good to get to know our teachers. And we're huge into missions and service here. And this is absolutely in that realm. So maybe we can also talk about if a student or alumni, especially those who have gone on to our the military, um, could could get involved in this as well. So let's just start with who you are briefly, just in case if people don't know you, but I think most people do.

SPEAKER_05 12:48

Well, thanks. I really appreciate you taking the time and letting me come on and talk about this. It's is very much something I'm passionate about, something that I love, something that touches a lot of different aspects of I think like who who I want to be. Yeah. Um, so appreciate the time. So I for my military background, I enlisted in the Marines in '94, uh, was in for a little over 23 years, got my commission, did all my IRAC time as an infantry officer, went to what's called selection and became a Marine Special Operations Officer and did my last Afghan deployments and other deployments after that were as a Marine Special Operations Officer. Retired in 2017, 10 years ago. And a little over two years ago in summer of 24, I found out about this, about the program War Horse for Veterans, um, and was asked to come out, or I should say was welcomed to come out and did a week there as a participant. Went back about six or seven months ago as a mentor for a group, uh, and then recently got the opportunity to be an ambassador for this uh group, War Horses for Veterans. And just as sort of a background, like I grew up in Central South Dakota. My mom is actually from very much ranching family. Her uncle, my great uncle, was a world champion cowboy. But rodeo was not something, horses were not something I grew up with. We moved to Denver when I started high school. When I went out to the War Horses is in Kansas City, on the Kansas side of Kansas City. I saw the better side. I know, right? Yeah. Um so when I went back there, it was really the first time I'd been on a horse since I was uh six or seven. Our daughter rides, she's a hunter jumper, she's ridden for quite a while. Um it's a tax bracket I don't really belong in. I don't know how we ended up there. My truck is plenty old, right? No, but it's it's great to see her her passion and her joy for that. And so both my wife and I enjoy going down to the barn and watching her. So we have been around horses. Um, but like I said, neither my wife nor I, uh, nor our son are have ever ridden very seriously.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

That's amazing. I love that this is kind of something you got into a little later in life, which is I think sometimes we get stuck in the rut of nope, I've picked my hobbies, I've picked my things. Like if I'm not doing it by the time I get out of college, I'm not adding anything new. So I love that this is new for you. Can you just give us a little bit of background about what Warhorses for Veterans are? Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:02

So the the program itself is run by just some truly phenomenal people. There's uh an older couple who has raised Morgan horses, which are kind of like quarter horses, and they raised them for a long time. Their names are uh Patricia and Andy, Pat, and Andy. As they got a little bit older, they said, you know what, this is what we want to do, this is how we want to give back. So they've got uh probably six or seven full-time employees. Brett Courtright runs it. Jacob Greenleaf is the sort of ranch boss. They've got a gal who's their barn manager. The way it works is this first of all, it's at zero cost to the participant.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Oh, that's so cool.

SPEAKER_05 15:34

Yeah, it's a nonprofit, it's a 501c nonprofit, and fully supported by donors and donations. Typically, a group is of four or five participants and then a mentor. A group goes out, flies in Sunday night, stays in, they call it the bunkhouse, but it's pretty nice. Everybody's got their own room, a little coffee lounge. Yeah, it's it's it's really nice. And Monday through Friday, days sort of follow a similar schedule. Um, wake up, what we call barn chores, going out, cleaning salls, feeding horses, all that sort of stuff. Around half of that all of the meals, they have executive chefs that come in and make the meals. Yeah, yeah. Again, everything 100% paid for. Plane tickets paid for, transportation paid for. Wow, everything. Everything. That's right. Participants do not pay a single cent out of pocket. So after breakfast, typically, ride first day, a round pen where we the horse is in a like a smaller um like a round pen's, I don't know, probably like 20, 20, 20 or so yards across. And you just get used to what we call groundwork. So the person's on the ground, uh, just sort of moving a horse in a circle, seeing how fast how they move, how to make them move faster without actually being on them, then a little bit of bare back, and then by day two, you're riding, and by day three, you're uh sort of chasing an imaginary cow, and then you might do some roping. Oh wow. Yeah. So after the morning session, come back, do some a guided discussion, have lunch, probably go ride again, have another guided discussion, dinner, and then sort of like a round table chat of what we've seen that day. Um and each of those, you know, post-ride activities um describes it best as sort of backdooring mental health. Right. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So that's how the week sort of flows. And again, typically folks will will fly out Sunday. I'm not an expert on how the different programs vary, but they have a uh one program that's generally combat veterans of uh from conventional forces. Okay. They have one program that is first responders, so it's not just veterans, it's first responders who go out. Yeah, right. All the times that I've been out there, it's been exclusively former or retired or about to retire special operators. So heavy on Army Special Forces, Army Rangers, and then some Navy SEALs. One or two Marines have been out through it as well. I think the Marine numbers are picking up.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

So is it equine therapy? Is that kind of what they're going for?

SPEAKER_05 17:52

Short answer is no. Equine therapy is a great program, and I've never been through an equine therapy program, but I've seen this is where we spend a lot of time brushing the horses, grooming the horses, getting to know the horses, and then probably finishes with like a trail ride or something, you know, fairly controlled riding, which is great. And there's a great place for that. I think great things can come out of equine therapy, but this is very different. Their approach to it is, my understanding is they look at therapy kind of like a self-licking ice cream cone, right? We go, we talk about something, uh, and then we keep going back to it, and we keep going back to it. And the approach that Jessica, who largely runs this side of it, she would refer to as post-traumatic growth, right? Which is taking the growth mindset, right? That kind of that cliche growth mindset, like something, there's a challenge, there's a setback or something like that, and how do I use this to sort of propel me forward? And it's taking those traumatic experiences and the difficulties that that combat veterans and retired former special operators have, and how do we take those health challenges and use them as a mechanism for progress as opposed to going to therapy to talk about it? If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Interesting. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I don't know if you coming out of the military have struggled with anything post-traumatic. I I don't actually know how you get out without having it. But have you benefited at all from what they do?

SPEAKER_05 19:15

Have I benefited tremendously? Tremendously. Like I said, from 94 to 2017, seven deployments. Uh how does somebody come out of that without issues? By the grace of God alone. Yeah. Like 100%. And I mean that. I I couldn't explain it any other way. Um I would say more of the issues because it it's part of it is the combat trauma side of it, and part of it is I would say, and again, just speaking for myself, is how do we transition from something that was as close and deep a part of us as deploying with a special operations unit and then transitioning to a civilian job? Totally. Which is not a criticism of any sort of civilian job, but it's it is not the same. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so I think as much as anything, if I were to talk about like what's what was most difficult for me, that probably is in the top three things, you know. And the nice part about it is, you know, if you get five retired or retiring special operators together, they've never met each other before. It's the coolest dynamic ever. First of all, everybody's like, let's be best friends. Yeah. We've never talked before, but we've been to the same places and and now we're immediately best friends. And the other thing that's really cool about Hannah is this there's it's surprisingly no ego.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Oh, I am surprised to hear that. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:34

You would think that, but I think that and the times that I've been out there, everybody is all of those guys are incredibly tough. No, there's no need to prove yourself because you know, if I meet a guy who was uh uh Army Green Beret in around the same time that I was, like, I know he doesn't, I don't need to prove anything to him. And so we can get on the back of a horse, and if I look like an idiot, it's okay. Right? I think that there's a sort of I think the great thing about that is there's like it's okay to be vulnerable, right? You look at me, I was 54 years old when I went out there, hadn't been on a horse since I don't know when, right? And there is probably some times that are like, oh my god, I feel bad, I feel bad for that horse, right? And the horses that they have are are high power, like oh, like wow, okay. So they do a lot of what we call the rain cow horse or raining horse. So if you've seen Yellowstone, um, or as I like to call it, the chosen in Montana, right? If you've seen Yellowstone, those are really good high power horses that have won, you know, tens, hundreds of thousands of dollars in competing, right? Yeah, let some ding bat like take it on the back. But again, it's great because if I get on and look like Humpty Dumpty on the back of that horse for the first couple days, nobody cares. It's it's totally okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

That's amazing. That's really, really cool. Uh yeah, I love so much about this. And I just love that they've taken this idea of okay, we know horses. Are a way that people can heal. Right. But we also know our clientele, for lack of a better word. And we know what they need. Right. And we can make this something that they really appreciate and it's helpful.

SPEAKER_05 22:11

Yeah. And and and uh Jessica really described it well, like the journey takes place and the horse is just the vehicle. Right. And it's and there are some times it was hard for me because like horses are like a powerful connector. Yeah. Right? I love dogs, growing up with dogs, trained dogs, all that stuff. The connection that when you get a horse's trust and you feel like the horse trusts you, it's a very different kind of, you know, I like when I come home, my dogs are always happy to see me. If I'm on a horrible day, if I'm like in a bad mood or anything like that, the dogs are like, woo, this is great, we love this guy. Right? If I have that mindset and walk up to a horse, he's just gonna mirror it and he's gonna back away and he's gonna see, okay, this guy's got something going on. Right. So it forces you, it forces me, I should say, to get in the right mindset. And I don't mean like bottle it up or take a breath and say, okay, where am I? Let's do a little mental check-in with me. If I've got some stuff that's grading on me, I need to step aside from that for just a little bit, right? I need to be here fully present for this horse because we're a partnership and I'm in charge, but he has to trust me and I have to trust him.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Yeah, okay. Two things come to mind with that. One is I just think that speaks to our creator God. Like when he made us, we were made to rule and subdue these animals. And each of these animals is made so uniquely that they have personalities and they it's almost like they're made for us and they're made to help us, but we are made to serve them and rule them and help and care for them. It's so fascinating to hear you talk about an animal that way. But also you talked about being present in the moment, and isn't that like the number one cure for anxiety? Because our anxieties are either I'm having shame and regret about something in the past and I'm anxious about that, or I am looking to the future and I'm having like anxiety and fear about what's coming down the pipeline. But when you're in the moment, it's really hard to be anxious if you're present.

SPEAKER_05 24:12

Yeah. Like for me, you know, the getting on a horse at 54 years old, you really have to like I'm gonna geek out for just a second. Like the demands on the brain are significant, right? Because both reins are a mechanism for directing the horse. Both feet are a mechanism, your seat, even your head. Like if I turn my head too much, like if I look down at the ground, the horse is gonna look down at the ground. So there's a lot, both in terms of mindset and in terms of like just attentiveness to where my body is. It's fascinating for me having watched my daughter grow up. And she's pretty good on a horse, but to see how difficult it is to learn that skill set.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

That's so cool. Yeah. So you mentioned you're an ambassador for War Horses or a Veteran. Can you give us a little bit uh just what does that mean? And then what is your role when you go out there? Sure.

SPEAKER_05 25:03

Being ambassador is great. Being a uh mentor for other groups is really where for me where you see the impact on it, right? So when a group comes out, they've got Brett is there, Jacob's there, uh Riyadh is there, Jessica's there, um, and then they'll have a full-time chaplain actually who comes out. Oh, that's awesome. Military chaplain, right? Um, and then a mentor, and all of those people. So you actually have probably more people supporting than actual participants. But what I would tell you as a mentor, this is my time to speak to speak the gospel. Right? It when the time is right, and if the audience is right. There's no requirement for religion there, there's no expectation or anything like that. So this is just um if there's a way. I'm always gonna say, look, my purpose in life is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. And this may be a mechanism that I can do it. So my role as a mentor is to sort of facilitate those conversations. I would say in large part to sort of model vulnerability. That's what I would say is really making sure that participants, the guys going through it, know that hey, you're around people who have shared. I think in the last group I mentored, the group and the other people there, there were 44 deployments to Iraq, Afghanistan, or other places. Yeah. That's a lot making sure that those guys know, hey, like we get it. You know what I mean? Like it's okay if you have some concerns about retiring and how am I gonna handle this and how like how's this gonna change my relationship with my family? Um, so for me, modeling that sort of vulnerability is a big part of it. As an ambassador, it's more focused on the guys who've been through the program, right? So somebody went through the program six six or seven years ago, reach out to them, just do a check-in. Hey, how's it going?

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:52

Like, how was your experience out there? Do you want to come back out? Anytime somebody wants to go back to war horses and just spend the week riding, if they don't have a group, you can come back, you can stay in the bunkhouse, you can, you know.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

That's so amazing. It's really amazing. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 27:05

That's really, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

I love your perspective because I think sometimes we think the presentation of the gospel has to look a certain way. Like, let's sit down. Here is the New Testament. Like, I'm going to walk you through this, but we shouldn't compartmentalize our faith. And we can speak life and gospel into people in all sorts of different ways. And I just love that like even though they're not a religious organization, you are coming in with the mindset of like, if you're hurting, like I have the solution, I know of something better. Right, right, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:33

And there and again, it's not um it's definitely making sure that the um that the time is right, that the people are right.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

Yeah, it's awesome. Um I don't want to keep you for too much longer, but two final questions. Um, why do you think this is such a powerful, impactful program?

SPEAKER_05 27:56

I think that when I talk to my freshman boys about what do men need, right? Men need three things. They need to do hard things.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:03

They need a purpose and they need connection.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:06

Right? And again, if we're talking about a group of former special operators, they're not afraid of doing hard things. Yeah. The hardest things in the world. Connection, right? Everybody who gets out of the military. I don't miss the job and I miss the people. Okay, kind of miss the job too. But it is that connection with people that you need and purpose. And I think that for me, I put Christ at the center of those three things, right? Am I doing hard things in a way that glorifies him?

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:30

Does my purpose match the blessings that I've been given? And does the connection do I have to people mirror the connection that I have to my savior?

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Wow. Right.

SPEAKER_05 28:42

And so when I look at what a guy who goes out to war horses for the first time, well, he's going to do hard things, right? He's going to get on a horse and he may have never done that before. Right. Yeah. And they could be pretty fast. Yeah. And connection, right? Like I said, guys you've never met before. Hey, let's be best friends. Yeah. So there's that instant connection there. And the purpose of for me is seeing how seeing the power, like the impact that it's had the last two groups that I went through. At least one of those four guys really by Wednesday just opened up because they're comfortable. They're with guys who have had similar experiences, and they're guys who are willing to be vulnerable, not afraid of falling off the horse. You know what I mean? Like stuff like that. So to me, it's that the purpose for me is can I make can I make this guy's life better? Can I make his relationship with his wife better? Can I make his relationship with his kids? You know, if the time is right, can I make his relationship with Christ better? You know what I mean? If the conditions are right. What is so powerful about it? We're asking him to do hard things. It's not the same sort of like go on a 20-mile rock march with a 70-pound pack, but trying to figure out a horse the first time you're on it, right? You're learning pretty fast.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Or even mucking out a stable. Yeah, right? It's it's hard work. It's not fun, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:02

Yeah. The connection, right? The group I went through uh in 2024, still stay in touch with a couple of those guys. You know what I mean? And again, the purpose, feeling like, okay, I'm doing is doing something that's do I do I enjoy it? Is it benefit? Do I love being on the horse? Absolutely. But the purpose of seeing a guy really make progress, I think is that's powerful. I don't know if I if that's in the absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

And I think when you were talking earlier about like getting out of the military, one of the biggest struggles or fears or pain points is like, how do I adjust back to civilian life? When you have you're doing hard things every day, you clearly have a purpose and you are in very close connection. And it's just kind of pulling them back into that, pulling them back into this. Was your experience for several years? Okay, come get a taste of that again. Like, let's just relive this for a little bit. This is maybe a stupid example. It's like summer camp. It's like a moment of like, okay, I just needed this high point to kind of get me back into the phone.

SPEAKER_05 30:58

Yeah, it I think that's very much that like that just reminding yourself that that's out there. And I and I think that it's surprising for the number of guys, and I put myself firmly in this group, of like, I came back from my first one and immediately found a trainer and started riding and have been riding ever since, right? You know what I mean? And again, it's best described the the horse is the vehicle, the horse is the mechanism that enables the journey. Men at any stage in their life will thrive on connection, right? And certainly connection to their savior, connection to their families, all those things, the people they work with. There, for me, there is something that's just so powerful about like grooming a horse, getting on it, riding it, getting to know it, seeing it develop. It the horse watching you sort of feeling you develop as a rider. The first time the horse is like, this guy has no idea what he's doing. And then, you know, maybe six months into it, the horse is probably like, okay, he's yeah, we're gonna be okay. You know?

SPEAKER_01 31:55

I love that. That's so that's amazing. So my last question is every year we have a handful of students not just get into the military academies, but also just enlist, you know, students every year choose that direction. Um I'm assuming this is only for military, but you also said first responders, and I think we have students go that route as well. Right. If they wanted to get involved, what would you recommend? Or would you say this is good for everyone or a specific type of person in the military?

SPEAKER_05 32:25

So what I would say certainly something for students to consider, I would probably put it in the category of parents too, right? If mom or dad um is a a police firefighter, EMT, anything like that, there's a pretty big community of war horse alumni from here in the Denver area. Oh, cool. The other thing I would say is you can just uh honestly go to the website, right? And the website has got a ton of information on it. If if it's somebody who is in the military or a first responder and is getting close to retiring or getting close to getting out, what I would say is somebody who's been out for you know 10, 15 years, they could certainly benefit from it. But most of those guys are um have either retired within the last you know three, four, five years, or they're getting close to retiring. Yeah. There's a parent out there who is a police or firefighter or anything like that who's interested in it. I'm pretty sure they're taking open applications. They typically run 14 groups a year. I'm not 100% sure on that. Obviously, they kind of wind down around November when it gets pretty they do have a nice indoor arena, beautiful outdoor arena, but from probably like early November till probably early March, it kind of downs. Mostly out, mostly based off weather. But for certainly for for anybody who's interested, I would direct them to the website Warhorses for Veterans.org. And they've got all their financials. If people are considering sending like contributing, like you can see exactly where all their money goes. So that's kind of nice too.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Yeah, that's awesome. So I I will absolutely put their website in the show notes, and then of course, if anybody wants to talk to you, I'm sure you're fine with that. Is this something that our service uh our service groups on campus could get looked into?

SPEAKER_05 33:58

So I actually Bell Gardner and I have talked about that. Oh and um short answer is probably. Okay. The bigger challenge is sort of the timing of it, right? And do we have a do we have a project if they're gonna clear one of their pastures and put a fence up or something like that? That would be that's the only real thing to see if we could align those like our mission trip week.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Man, that's the kind of project I want my kids doing. I want them fixing fence.

SPEAKER_05 34:24

I know, I know. So I'm hoping that there's a way that we can make that work. I feel like it's a pretty we could, like I said, drive out there, stay there. Yeah. They've got a huge kitchen and they get like eight or ten kids of who are just, you know, not afraid to get their hands dirty and get in the mud a little bit. The people at Warhorses want to make sure that if we bring people out there that they're gonna be actively engaged. So to answer your question, I'm hoping that there's a way we can work that out.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Awesome. That's so cool. This has been just delightful to talk to you. It's always good to talk to you. And thank you for sharing about this organization that I'm guessing most people have not heard of or don't have familiarity with. So I really appreciate your time.

SPEAKER_05 35:01

Again, I appreciate you letting me come on and talk about it. It's just had such a powerful impact on me, and I've seen it have it on other people. I just I want to make that opportunity available to anybody who might be able to benefit from it. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Forgive us all for game.